09
Jun
10

One Guy’s Guide to Made-to-Measure Suits


Many guys I talk to about suits are curious about Made-to-Measure (“MTM”).  In the last few years, there has been a concerted effort to advertise the MTM process by a number of men’s clothing companies and stores.  This has created a certain aura around the MTM suit, while the plethora of companies offering MTM suits has had the effect of dropping the prices on MTM garments to being very affordable.  I’ve been through the MTM process and I believe that I can lay out the process, the pros and cons and parse out the myths and reality of purchasing a MTM suit.

First, the vast majority of men interested in purchasing a MTM suit fall into one or more of these four categories:

1) They don’t think that conventional, off-the-rack (“OTR”) suits fit them and therefore require MTM in order to have a well-fitting suit;
2) They perceive the quality of MTM suits to be generally superior to those of OTR suits, and therefore want to purchase a better suit;
3) They are picky about the details of their suits and cannot find anything OTR that has all the details they want; and
4) They have spare cash that makes the convenience and generally superior service associated with certain MTM programs interesting to them, regardless of how much the increase in quality and fit over OTR actually is.

I would say that I fall into at least two of these categories myself; first, I have a slightly hard time finding suits that fit my lean but athletic body type, and the suits that I do find often do not meet my very precise qualifications.   The result being that I’ve gone the MTM route and lived to tell the tale; but do not take this as a blanket recommendation of MTM suits.  In fact, this post is much more of a cautionary one, which I hope will provide an honest look at the advantages offered by MTM (and there are advantages) as well as disadvantages or potential issues that may arise.

The first question that must be answered is, what exactly is a MTM suit?  A MTM suit is one that is made by adjusting a pre-existing pattern in order to manufacture a suit that more exactingly fits a particular customer.  In other words, if you, like myself, are somewhere in between requiring a regular and tall length jacket, the pattern used to make your suit can be adjusted so as to adjust the length between those of an OTR tall and OTR regular.  This is a valuable aspect of the process, as suit manufactures typically offer three lengths (Short, Regular and Tall) and it’s your job to fit into one of them.  However, most people mistake a MTM suit for a “Bespoke” suit.  A Bespoke suit is made entirely from scratch, from a pattern made specifically for the individual customer.  In other words, while MTM attempts to tinker with something that already exists, Bespoke creates something altogether new.  You can imagine that certain things cannot be corrected after the fact, once the plans have been made.  It is very difficult to make a car mid-engined once you’ve designed it to be front-engined.  You can move the battery to a different location, add features or design details such as a rear spoiler, adjust ride heights, etc, but making wholesale changes is often not possible.  Therein lies the difference between Bespoke and MTM, and it is an important difference.

Reversing course, let’s reexamine several of the 4 reasons I mentioned earlier why men pursue MTM to see if they hold up.  Regarding #2, the idea that the quality of MTM suits is generally superior to OTR, within the world of MTM there are vastly different levels of service and quality.  The word “custom” is thrown around far too often and far too liberally in our society and this very much applies to MTM suits.  I’ll often hear that a store is selling “custom” suits when in fact these suits are custom in only the very broadest sense of the word.  Undoubtedly you will have heard about tailors from Asia that pass through most large cities on a fairly regular basis, offering MTM suits, shirts, etc, at pseudo-bargain prices.  Sadly, you generally get what you pay for, and it’s never quite that easy to get a bargain.  I’ve seen first-hand the work of a number of these tailors and have been far from impressed.  Their ads often fail to answer a number of vital questions, including whether their suits are fully (or half) canvassed, what the button stance of the jacket will be, where the notch on the lapel typically lies on their suits, whether they’re basted or fused, etc (if any of these terms are foreign to you, I would highly encourage to read my post on suits here).  The work on these suits are being done in factory settings in Asia by workers of unknown experience and skill, with measurements being taken by people of unknown experience and skill.  Should adjustments be required (and they almost inevitably will on a MTM suit), you’re left to your own devices.  I would strongly argue that the fit you will get from purchasing a quality OTR garment and having it tailored after the fact will, in many cases, be superior to the fit you will get from a budget MTM manufacturer.  In other words, think long and very hard before going down this route as you generally get what you pay for…

Furthermore, there will almost inevitably need to be adjustments to your suit once you get it back from even the best MTM tailors, including those at Harry Rosen, Zegna or wherever else, and it will be up to you to push them to make these changes correctly.  Otherwise, you will be in nearly the same place as had you purchased an OTR suit.  MTM isn’t a miracle – it is essentially a slightly more convenient way of purchasing OTR suits in terms of getting a proper fit.  If you go in expecting miracles, you will disappointed and you will still need to know how a proper suit should fit in order to get everything you need out of the experience.

But beyond perceived quality, I think that it is reason #1, the idea that one cannot find suits that fit, that many potential MTM allegedly fit into.  This is a mistaken belief in a large number of these  instances and many people who are looking at MTM because they feel that they fall within #1 should reconsider before proceeding.  There is no universal way in which suits are cut – suit manufactures base their suits on “fit models”, individuals with body types that the designer of the suit is aiming to fit.  Different manufacturers have very different fits; furthermore, most manufacturers offer more than one cut.  Therefore there are different fits even amongst the suits offered by a single manufacturer.  Thus, a Ralph Lauren Black Label will fit very differently than a Ralph Lauren Purple Label suit, and both will fit very differently than the Ermengildo Zegna Trofeo line.  You shouldn’t approach buying a suit by saying “I want to buy a Zegna suit” because Zegna might not fit you as well as other brands – you should find which brands fit you the best and go from there.  This can be a time-consuming process and it is best to find a larger store that offers a range of different manufacturers.

Another way to find a proper fitting OTR suit is to play with sizes.  For example, I like my suits cut slim.  However, I have a slim but athletic body type, meaning that I have broad shoulders but a narrow waist.  I’ve made the mistake of purchasing a Ralph Lauren Black Label suit, partly because they’re beautifully made suits, but also because that is the cut of suit I’m looking for.  However, it has never quite fit me as well I would like. I typically wear a 40R, but the 40R is too tight in the shoulders while fitting in the body, and the 42R fits in the shoulders but is like a tent everywhere else.  My mistake was trying to go up a size in a slim suit cut in order to fit the shoulders, rather than getting a more fuller-fitting suit in a smaller size.  I was recently at Brooks Brothers looking at their trimmer fitting Milano and Fitzgerald suits, as both are cut in the way that I like my suits to fit.  However, I encountered the same issue as I did with Ralph Lauren Black Label – the 40R was too tight in the shoulders, while the 42R was too loose everywhere else.  However, I then tried on a Regent cut, which is a far more “leisurely” fitting suit, one whose cut I would have told you I would dislike.  Except I moved down a size to a 39R, and it fit like an absolute glove.  Plus, because it was a smaller size than I typically wear, the armholes were slim and in the proper place, it fit in the shoulders and was trim everywhere else, which is how the Fitzgerald is supposed to fit and the Regent is not.  But, by playing with sizes, the opposite became true.

In other words, almost everyone can find something that fits OTR, so long as you’re open to trying different manufacturers, different cuts and different sizes.  What you lose is the convenience of MTM, which attempts to do this process for you, but at a price.  Nonetheless, I would strongly suggest that if your primary reason for pursuing MTM is #1, you should try again.

Overall, I would only pursue MTM if you fall within #3 or #4, either by themselves or in concert with #1 or #2.  This isn’t to rule out #1 entirely – perhaps nothing will fit, and perhaps the suits that do aren’t to your liking.  In that case, perhaps MTM is a good idea; but if #1 is your primary reason, you should make double-sure that no likeable OTR suits fit.  If this is the case, keep reading.

Alright, now that I’ve given the stern “this may not work for you” speech, I’ll explain the process, which is very much a more enjoyable way to purchase a suit.

At Harry Rosen, the process begins, at least at the flagship on Bloor Street, on the 5th floor, which is above the fray of the general sales floors.  The 5th floor is a very comfortable atmosphere, where you’ll be offered a chilled bottle of water and a comfortable chair.  From there, you will sit down with your sales representative and explain what it is exactly you are looking for, what you’ll be typically wearing your suit for (special occasion, day-to-day at the office, etc) and from there, he or she will start to pull out fabric swatchs.  It can be daunting to be faced with hundreds of swatchs, each slightly different, but once you establish the price range you’re looking to pay, and other details, you will often end up with a much more manageable amount.  This is where the expertise of the sales rep may be particularly useful, as they may have suits in that same fabric already made that they can show you, will perhaps know how that fabric will wear, how much stretch it will have, etc.  After this, the details of the suit (vents, buttons, side tabs vs. belt loops, etc) will be spelled out.  Again, the sales rep may be able to offer their own expertise.  At this stage, I will make my one and only stylistic suggestion: go with side tabs rather than belt loops.  For one, I feel that they give you a superior and more chameleon like fit (as you can adjust them as you go).  More importantly, it is a tradition on Saville Row that bespoke suit trousers not have belt loops and therefore a bespoke suit from that hallowed street will have side tabs.  On the other hand, most OTR suits have belt loops, as I’m sure you will have noted.  Why not loop up (towards bespoke) rather than down (towards OTR) when fleshing out the details of your MTM suit?  Following this, you will likely be asked to try-on a number of suit pants and jackets in order to better determine what it is you like, and how it looks on you.  After this, careful measurements are taken, your posture noted, subtle differences between the lengths of legs or height of shoulder pads are written down and added to the mix.  These details will be used to create a more personalized fit.

Once you’ve got all your measurements made and you’ve decided on the details and fabric, this information will be sent to the manufacturer for the suit to be constructed.  After approximately a month, your suit will arrive at Harry Rosen, where you will have your first fitting.  Almost inevitably, adjustments will need to be made; hopefully these adjustments are small, but sometimes they are not.  At this stage, the suit will be handed over to Harry’s in-house tailors for these adjustments to be made.  Finally, you will come in for your final fitting and hopefully the suit will be exactly what you had in mind.  If it’s not, be sure to tell them immediately and some sort of arrangement can likely be made.  More information regarding Harry’s MTM program can be found in this article (although allow for some editorial license and hyperbole in the article): www.harrymagazine.ca/files/47/MadetoMeasure.pdf.

If you do decide to treat yourself to a MTM suit, I would highly recommend taking advantage of a Samuelsohn trunk sale at Harry Rosen.  These happen a few times a year and simultaneously give a discount while expanding the number of fabrics available.  Samuelsohn suits are made in Montreal to a very high standard (more information available at http://www.samuelsohn.com/) .  Many details are customizable, including adding side tabs to pants, the colour of the lining of your suit, the addition of working buttons at the cuffs, etc.  For more information, I would suggest heading to Harry’s flagship store on Bloor St. in Toronto and speaking to the sales rep that I deal with, Robert Kennedy, the Manager of Harry’s MTM programs.

I would also suggest looking at Brooks Brothers’ similar program, especially when they have their twice annual sales and I would look for John Di Matteo, the MTM specialist there (formerly head of MTM at Harry’s First Canadian Place location).

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22 Responses to “One Guy’s Guide to Made-to-Measure Suits”


  1. 1 Alex Langley
    December 9, 2010 at 3:26 am

    Great Post – I found the information very useful as I’m about to make my first MTM purchase. Question for you – I’ve got a choice between Coppley and Samuelsohn for the fabrics and cannot decide whether it is worth the extra dollars for the Samuelsohn. The tailor says the quality of the Samuelsohn is superior, but in your opinion is it worth the extra couple hundred dollars to upgrade? The way I look at it I can either get a high end fabric from Coppley or a lower end fabric from Samuelsohn (looking to spend around 1k).

    • 2 canuckstyle
      December 9, 2010 at 12:34 pm

      Well, my quick answer would be to go for the Samuelsohn. I’ve gone that route a couple of times and I’ve always been happy I did. With that said, how much are you planning on wearing the suit? If it’s going to be your “go-to” suit, then you should definitely go Samuelsohn – you’ll have regrets later if you don’t. If it’s something that you’re only going to be wearing on occasion (perhaps it’s a tuxedo, or something like a summer-weight suit), then it may not be worth it. My most important question is, are you sure you can get a MTM Samuelsohn suit for $1K? I’ve never been able to pull that off, as the nicer fabrics almost always run at least $1200. I have a feeling that you’ll be in the same boat when it’s all said and done (although I’m not sure where you’re getting your suit made, so I very well could be wrong about this). So, decide whether you can live with $1200 if you want Samuelsohn (unless your tailor really can do a nice fabric for $1K).

      Bottom line though, I say go Samuelsohn if you can stomach the extra expense. Definite upgrade over Coppley.

      • 3 Alex Langley
        December 9, 2010 at 12:42 pm

        Thanks for the quick response.

        Yes, this suit is just for special occasions – weddings, big events, etc. so realistically I’ll probably only wear it a half dozen times a year.

        I’m not sure if this is a typical thing, but the menswear shop I visited has a 20% off sale on Coppley and Samuelsohn fabrics for an order they place at the end of January (I’m thinking they order bulk once a year and pass the savings on to their customers). The store is Ed Williams Menswear here in Calgary.

        The Coppley fabric I had picked out was around $1350, but what you have said makes me think that I should double check the Samuelsohn fabrics as I didn’t give them a very close look as the top end prices really scared me away.

        As you pointed out in a previous post, I’m looking for a modern style suit (raised/smaller armholes with slim look) – can the MTM from Samuelsohn be built to look this way?

        Thanks again.

  2. 4 canuckstyle
    December 9, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    I’ll try and answer your questions one by one.

    5 or 6 times is a decent amount. With that said, I would 100% go down to Brooks Brothers and try on the Fitzgerald, Regent and Milano cuts from their 1818 collection before you go MTM. Fitzgerald is cut the way it sounds like you want it, slim with high armholes (and Milano is even slimmer – Regent is less slim, but it may actually fit the way you want it depending on the size you try on). The good thing about Brooks is that they have all sizes in between (i.e. the don’t just have 40, 42, 44, etc. They have 39,40,41,42, etc. If the Fitz doesn’t fit well (it gives me shoulder divots as the shoulders are too tight) then try the Regent in a size smaller than you normally wear – fits me perfectly). The internet says that there’s a Brooks Bros. in Calgary at Core Shopping Centre (Calgary’s Eaton Centre, apparently). Brooks has a huge Boxing Day sale that’s usually good for 40% off, so you’d be looking at paying about $500-600 bucks for one of their suits. Half-canvassed, good quality for the money (I wrote a blog post on them, so you should search that out). Not as nice as a Samuelsohn suit, but you’d be saving about $800 – I would say that’s worth it if you get one during their Boxing Day sale. I would go in before Christmas, talk up a salesman, and get them to put your favourite aside and ring it through on Boxing Day, if this ends up being something you’re interested in.

    Re: the Coppley suit you’re looking at, you must have picked one of their top-end fabrics, or the prices at your tailor aren’t as great as they’re suggesting, as that seems like a high price for a Coppley. You’re definitely in mid-low Samuelsohn territory at $1350. I would phone Harry Rosen and seen when their next Samuelsohn and Coppley trunk shows are in your area, as they usually have similar (10%+ off) discounts to what you’re getting for those events.

    Re: Samuelsohn fit, they can pretty much cut it the way you like it, although it’s never going to look like Dior Homme. When it comes to having a MTM (or bespoke) suit, always remember that it’s the person measuring you that decides how your suit will fit. So you need to make sure that they’re well aware of your preference – speak up or forever hold your piece. You’ll likely have to have some adjustments made when it arrives, so stick to your guns and don’t accept it until it’s exactly what you want. Also keep in mind that Samuelsohn, like most suit companies, have a number of different cuts. I like modern, slim cuts with high-arm holes like yourself and I wear the “Arno” model. Give that one a try. I prefer independent tailors (like you’re looking at using) but the one advantage of Harry’s is that they have a wide selection of Sammy in the store for you to look at and try-on. They can also take pants from one cut and a jacket from another, so make sure you also get slim-cut trousers. If you really want to go with a bespoke look, ask them for side tabs rather than button loops (as all true Saville Row bespoke suits have no button loops). They’ll do it and won’t cost you any extra. You should also be able to pick the lining and decide whether you want surgeon’s cuffs (buttons that undo at the sleeve – these will cost you a bit more).

    Anyway, my long-winded answer is, yes, Samuelsohn can be made to look how you want it, but you’re going to have to push for it, especially with the person measuring you and when you come in for your final adjustments when the suit arrives. If you want, I can send you a picture of myself in a Samuelsohn MTM so you can judge if it’s what you’re looking for.

    Good luck and feel free to ask me any other questions you may have.

    • 5 Alex
      December 9, 2010 at 1:35 pm

      Yes, that would be awesome if you could send me a picture – alexjameslangley@gmail.com.

      I will definitely take your advice on the Brooks Brothers suit. In fact, I might sneak down there today to check them out and ask them about that boxing dale sale.

      My professional attire has changed slightly over the last couple years where at a previous job I was required to wear suit and tie, my current job only requires dress pants and golf shirts.

      So for the MTM I wanted to have a more formal looking suit (thinking black european slim cut with white shirt and black tie). However, I’m thinking that maybe the Brooks Brothers suits you are recommending might be good to have as an all purpose suit for things like interviews and important business meetings? What are your thoughts on that approach?

      I really like your tips on the little tweaks to the pants. I quickly checked the internet on the side tabs point and I’m wondering if I went with them how does a belt stay in place? Or are they supposed to be a belt replacement? Also, as far as the lining would you recommend full length lining or cut off at the knees?

      Thanks again you are a wealth of knowledge!

  3. 6 canuckstyle
    December 9, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    The side tabs replace the belt loops. It’s something of an extra touch (although it should be free) and it may not be to everyone’s taste, but I prefer the look. RE: lining, it’s a bit rare to see pants lined beyond the knee and I would suggest it’s probably not something you’d want. Imagine being at an outdoor wedding in August in full-length lined pants… not something pleasant at all. With this suit, I think your goal should be to make it as versatile as possible, so try to pick a medium weight fabric and line it (max) to the knee.

    If you want a black, “european cut” suit that you’re going to be wearing with a white shirt and black tie, you probably don’t want Brooks Brothers or Samuelsohn. You should look at Thick as Theives (http://www.thickasthievesla.com/) or a more trendy, euro manufacturer like Dior, Prada, etc. The look you’re describing is very trendy. To be honest, I really am not a fan of black suits. I would highly recommend reading my post entitled “Corporate Style 1: The Suit” for all of my reasons why. Suffice to say that black’s not nearly as versatile as you think and far more trendy than you think. It’s a very formal look while simultaneously not being really appropriate for business (black suits have never been traditional for business – navy or charcoal are the colours of business). If I were you, I would go for a charcoal gray or dark navy suit. They’ll look almost black while being easier to match with other colours and also will be a lot more versatile for you. Black suits look faded and dull very quickly (esp. if you’re dry cleaning them) – charcoal is a better bet.

    Also, unless a wedding is specifically black tie, or it’s your wedding, you might not want to wear a solid black tie, white shirt and black suit as you’ll like either one of the groomsmen or one of the waiters. Charcoal gray suit, white shirt with either a gray, silver or dark navy tie (with a subtle pattern) would be a look you can’t go wrong with. That’s my recommendation.

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  5. 8 Vince
    January 19, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    Great post, and I also found the information very useful. I just ordered my first MTM suit at Harry Rosen. I’m a 38R or 39R and can be fitted off the rack. But this suit will be worn at my wedding, and so I wanted something special. Robert Kennedy helped me and took my measurements. He’s a true gentleman and appears to be a master of his craft. I enjoyed the experience…I even got to take advantage of the Samuelsohn trunk sale. Still pricey, but the Arno cut was just a great looking, fitting, and, probably more importantly, a great feeling suit on me. I got the surgeon cuffs and ticket pocket. I think it’ll look sharp, and I’m looking forward to my fitting!

  6. April 20, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Hi,

    My name is Josephine and I’m a freelance journalist with the Canadian version of Bankrate.com.

    I’m looking to do a web-only article about buying a custom made suit from the web to save money compared to using an in-person, traditional tailor. The article would talk about what consumers need to do to ensure that their purchase goes smoothly and important differences between using one option over the other.

    My article is due at the end of next week and I’d love if I could schedule a phone interview with you.

    Please contact me at my email.

    Sincerely,
    Josephine Lim

  7. September 14, 2012 at 12:53 am

    this is a great post, we take care while measuring the sizes and the suits. thanks for shatring.

  8. November 20, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Hey there! I simply would like to give you a big thumbs up for your great information you’ve got here on this post. I will be returning to your blog for more soon.

  9. February 27, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Excellent web site you have got here.. It’s hard to find high quality writing like yours nowadays. I honestly appreciate people like you! Take care!!

  10. February 28, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Wow, awesome blog layout! How long have you been blogging
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  11. 15 C.Mack
    March 6, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    I really like the blog. Good info and great recommendations. If I may, since you recommend the guys who work or have worked with the great Harry Rosen, I would like to mention a guy who runs his custom, bespoke and made to measure shop north of the city, in Richmond Hill. The place is called Le Firme, which carries the high end designer stuff for a great price. But the guy who calls himself “the Bespokeman” also worked for Rosen. John is his name and he can make miracles happen with his very modern suit looks. Lots of experience. He travels to Italy and really has his pulse on the best trends. I have been a client for two years. Very happy with the results and his advice.

  12. April 12, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Very nice article. I absolutely appreciate this website.
    Thanks!

  13. April 25, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    I’ve been surfing online more than three hours today, yet I never found any interesting article like yours. It’s pretty worth enough for me.

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  14. August 6, 2013 at 1:46 am

    Awesome post! This is the most important thing ” how to buy custom made suits” and confused to everyone that looking for best custom made suits . Hope this post will helpful and reading to it they are going to be a best custom tailor shop.

  15. November 23, 2013 at 6:04 pm

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  16. 20 Todd
    January 19, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    Thank you for your excellent article. I have experience with one of those traveling Asian tailors and although decent, I still have inconsistencies in quality order to order. I’m writing because it sounds like we may be a similar fit. I was at Brooks Brothers yesterday and it came down to the Fitzgerald and the Regent. The sales associate preferred the Fitz, and I preferred the Regent. The sales associate also recommended a short in both cuts. Even though I had never tried on a short before, I thought it was closer in the appropriate sizing than a regular. I’m truthfully probably in between and you can’t lengthen a short. I felt the short made me look taller and I liked that. Now to my measurements, size, ect. I am 5’9″, 165 lbs, reasonable athletic build, but I would speculate maybe a little heavier in the waist. I would guess that my body fat is about 17-18%. Like most men concerned with health, I would like to get that down below 15%. For reference again, it sounds like we fit very similar in sizing. The associate put me in a 40S Fitz and I preferred the 40S Regent. It did not even occur to me to go down to a 39s. I don’t think they had them. Please let me know your thoughts and comparisons. It is difficult to know without seeing someone else in dressed. BTW, this was only a sport coat NOT a suit, so I have no clue how I fit in pants. My legs are rather slim compared to the rest of my physique. Also, I am 35 years old. Thank you!

    • 21 Todd
      January 19, 2014 at 5:56 pm

      Also, probably most importantly, I am a 16/32 in Brooks Brothers “Extra Slim” No Iron Dress Shirts. I learned this yesterday. I’m a little heavy at the moment (165-170 lbs, I want to get back to 160-162) , so I would imagine this shirt would fit very slightly more roomy and give me a little more room in the neck (mm), which I would appreciate.

  17. February 5, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    We are the largest retailer of custom suits in Houston. With many years of experience, our company makes custom suits from a specific pattern developed for each client to make sure that the suit fits perfectly. Most of our packages contain a custom suit, custom shirts, and handmade ties.
    http://festariformen.com/custom-suits-in-houston/


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